Tonight (April 12th, 2022), new true crime series Descent of a Serial Killer comes to CBS Reality. Exploring some of the most shocking criminal cases in history, the show is headed up by former FBI Agent and leading Psychological Criminologist, Dr. Bryanna Fox, who is joined by a range of different contributors, all discussing the fascinating facts, details and evidence before asking the question: could these serial killers have been stopped earlier?
We caught up with Dr. Bryanna Fox ahead of the series premiere to discuss the opening episode, which features the cold and calculating Gerard Schaefer, as well as the role of women in law enforcement, bad apples within the police force and more!
How did you make your way into this career path?
I was always interested in why people behave the way they do, and trying to understand how to help people. The most challenging forms of this are cases of extreme violence, such as those who commit serial murder. Using science to understand why someone would do something that terrible, and how to stop it, was my version of becoming an astronaut and going to the moon!
As a woman, did you find challenges specific to your gender in this career, in terms of sexism and misogyny?
I was able to find ways to be successful in my career, but it was definitely a harder path for women in law enforcement, even today. There appear to be antiquated views that make it more difficult for women to be viewed as equals in certain aspects of the job. Given that research shows female law enforcement officers are more likely to use communication skills to address challenging situations and tend to have fewer complaints and negative interactions with citizens, I truly hope that the proportion of women in law enforcement (currently about 12%) will rise substantially in the future.
You front new CBS Reality series, Descent of a Serial Killer - tell us a little bit about what we should expect from the show.
This show takes a fascinating look at what most of us have wondered - what makes serial killers commit the unthinkable murders they do, and what can society do to prevent this in the future? Alongside other noted experts, I use my training in psychological criminology and FBI experience to examine the making of some of the most infamous serial killers in history, and the red flags and risk factors they showed along the way.
How important is looking at the childhood of a suspect to identify a potential serial killer?
I would not suggest that we can identify, and certainly not make arrests, based upon childhood risk factors present in an individual’s life. However, if police have a wide pool of potential suspects and are in need of a way to prioritise who to interview, check alibis for, etc., then these profiles may be a helpful tool to do so. That said, the best use of this knowledge is actually before a crime ever occurs, as people with these types of red flags are typically in need of help and services that not only can prevent future crimes, they can also greatly improve the person’s life and change their trajectory forever.
Episode 1 focuses on the case of Gerard Schaefer, who had quite a disturbing history but still managed to get not one, but two jobs in law enforcement, why was that?
Many serial killers, like Schaefer, are motivated by the need for power and control, which is obviously something inherent to the policing profession. He therefore specifically sought on that job, likely as a way of feeling power and control over others, but clearly this was not enough for him, and he had to go on to commit horrific murders to address his insatiable impulses.
Schaefer didn't learn to adjust his behaviour after being fired from his first police job, when moving to the second. Is that a hard thing to do for serial killers?
One theory is that serial killers lack empathy and remorse, so they do not think the rules apply to them and don’t feel bad from hurting others. This combined with other negative traits may be what allows them to do things that are bad, [whilst not caring].
We still see criminals come through in law enforcement to this day, so what does the industry need to do to stop this from happening?
There are many efforts to better predict and prevent bad apples from joining law enforcement, but unfortunately, predicting human behaviour is one of the most difficult things to possibly do. This makes our screening tools rather imprecise, meaning even when most high risk people are screened out due to red flags, as they currently are, some bad apples may still get in and some good apples may be incorrectly kept out. We need more smart and creative people to help improve these screeners in law enforcement!
Schaefer was sentenced to six months in prison following his crime of tying two women to trees and leaving them there, but the judge agreed to keep him out of jail until after the holidays. Why was there so much leniency for Schaefer?
People who are very charming and manipulative, as Schaefer appeared to have been, can be very convincing even to seasoned professionals like police and judges, and especially members of the untrained public. This, combined with the fact that he was a public servant and had no prior record, likely convinced the judge to be lenient. But this is why we need more objective and scientific risk assessments, as these judgements, while good intentioned, are more likely to be wrong if they are subjective and can lead to very bad outcomes, such as what happened in the Schaefer case.
I've found that women tend to be the majority of the audience who make up 'true crime junkies' - is that something you've also found when speaking to true crime fans?
Personally, when speaking to my students and friends about true crime, I tend to find that women are very interested in the ‘why’, such as why people commit crimes, particularly in cases that are so difficult to fathom such as brutal serial killers. I think this is why women may be so drawn to true crime - we want to understand and know the ‘whys’, and these types of crimes are some of the most difficult to understand of all. So it’s a real challenge to figure out, which I think is appealing to many people.
What has been one of the most shocking cases that has really stuck with you, that you've looked into?
The murders of Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. are two that particularly stand out to me, because the reason for their deaths were so inexplicable. Given the field I work in, I have a high tolerance for particularly disturbing things, but the fact that Matthew and James were killed so brutally (beaten to death and dragged behind a pickup truck, respectively) just because they were gay and Black is so unthinkable I can barely stomach it. But it’s these truly despicable murders that remind me that solving crime should not be our goal, we need to prevent them from occurring.
Has there ever been a situation in your real life where you've become close to a true crime case, away from work?
I used to live in Seminole Heights near downtown Tampa, at the exact time that there was a serial killer operating. In total, he killed four of my neighbours over a 52 day period, and it was one of the scariest and most sobering times of my life. I really saw first hand the impact these crimes have on the victims families, friends, and community, and I will never see true crime or serial killers the same way again.
Descent of a Serial Killer will premiere on Tuesday, April 12th, 2022 at 10pm, exclusive to CBS Reality. CBS Reality is available on Sky channel 146, Virgin Media channel 148, Freeview channel 67 and Freesat channel 135.
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Tagged in True Crime