Denise Welch is back on television screens this month with the arrival of new BBC Two romantic comedy Boy Meets Girl - the story of one trans female who meets a man 14 years her junior, kicking off a romantic relationship.
Denise Welch as Pam / Credit: BBC
Taking on the role of Pam, Denise plays a mother devoted to her two children - a very hands-on matriarch who only wants the best for her offspring, and someone who isn't best-pleased when one of her boys gets into a relationship with said older woman.
We got the chance to chat to Denise about the show, her role, what it may do to change opinions towards the trans community and much more in a new and exclusive interview. Read on to find out what she had to say.
This is the first show of its kind for the BBC, a transgender romantic comedy with a trans actress in the lead - did you ever feel any huge pressure going into it because of this?
No I didn't really. I mean, I was probably of all of the cast, apart from Rebecca (Root) herself obviously, I think that I was most knowledgeable of the transgender community, I think possibly having been, and these are not my words, a 'gay icon' over the years with the sort of roles that I've played, and also the type of life that I've lead and the places I've gone. I've known quite a few trans people, not closely as I do now Rebecca, but I have so, I was thrilled to be a part of something so ground-breaking.
But the thing about this series is that we're not trying to be drum bangers for the LGBT community, even though it will hopefully very gently educate people who didn't know much about this community. I love the way that it doesn't bang the drum. I think that Rebecca is going to be a fantastic advocate. I've just come back from Edinburgh where I saw her play Transcripts up there, and it's a very exciting time for her. But I've told her that, she must enjoy this time - says the old sage! She must enjoy this time as an actress, not just as a forerunner and a spokesperson for the transgender community. I said to her, 'Just take your foot off the pedal and think; 'I'm playing the lead in a brand new sitcom', and enjoy it as an actress as well.'
All the pressure I felt was to make it good, because in anything it doesn't matter what the subject matter is, if it says it's a romantic comedy and it's not romantic and it's not funny it's failed. So my pressure was just to be part of something good and hopefully I think I am.
How does it feel to be a part of something so important?
For me I just feel as I say, that I'm part of something that's getting a lot of publicity which can only be good, and selfishly I wanted to be in something good, because it's a while since people have seen me in my proper job in television. I was a long time doing Loose Women and that put a halt on people's memories really and so it's been very important that I have the right project to come back with really.
You play Pam on the show, a very hands-on mother - do you see any similarities there with your real life?
Well the kids might say differently but obviously I could relate to her in that she has two children that she adores. Obviously before Matthew became a rockstar (Matt of The 1975), I was constantly saying; 'Are you gonna get off your arse and do anything other than play music all day?', now I'm quite glad that he did! Because hopefully he's saving up for my Shady Pines Rest Home in the sun!
But obviously she is quite a hands-on mum. She's probably a little more domesticated and stuff than I ever was! But you know, she's a mum and I think that as a family, the MacDonalds work as a family. I think that it looks like, taking myself out of the equation, I think that Pam and Tony (Nigel Betts) feel like they've been together a long time and they drive each other up the bloody wall, but obviously there's a lot of love there, and the same with the kids, and I think they represent a very normal family with something not quite normal happening in its midst.
What made me laugh is she's dealing with a son who's going out with someone 14 years older, and she sort of sees herself sadly at the same age as Judy (Rebecca Root) even though there's a massive difference! It's quite funny for me because that's how much older I am than Lincoln (Townley, Denise's husband), so it made me laugh with those sort of references!
The family as you say are a normal one and I think there's at least one member relatable to everybody who'll be watching - was that what the cast and crew were trying to achieve here?
I think so. I think what I wanted it to do, which I think we were all on the same page - the producers, the director, the actors, everybody - obviously we are dealing with a subject matter which is not conventional, and the whole transgender thing is being talked about now. It is definitely the new black which is amazing that our show, although we started to talk about this show way before all the Caitlyn Jenner stuff and everything happened - we wanted this to be a story about two families coming together because there's a relationship between their children, and it just happens that one of them is transgender, which is another hurdle.
I think that Pam as a mum, I think she's not as narrow-minded as a lot of other people and I didn't want to play Pam as narrow-minded, but I think that I put myself in the situation and thought, if my son was going out with someone 15 years older - I think that I would have the same worries as everybody. I wouldn't have a problem if Matthew went out with someone 15 years older, I would just be aware of the hurdles you have to cross because of that. She's thinking about children, again, I had Louis when I was 43, so it's quite amusing to me when she's going on; 'I'm not gonna have grandchildren' and things, and obviously she has concerns when she does find out that she's transgender, but not because she's narrow-minded about the transgender community, just because it's her son, and life is hard. It's like being gay. Having a gay son would be absolutely cool as a cucumber to me, but the only thing I would worry about is life's tough anyway, and it's tougher if you're not in a conventional relationship. So it's just the same concerns that anybody that loved him would have.
The cast on the series seem really comfortable with one another, was there a great chemistry on-set from the off?
Yeah there was absolutely great chemistry. Bearing in mind a lot of series start where you go in on the first day and the series is commissioned and you all know what's going to happen, but we've been here from it being a little acorn as it were.
The Writer's Room were asked to have submissions for a transgender show, so this started probably three to four years ago with submissions, then they whittled it down to a longlist then a shortlist, then that's when I got the call saying; 'would you come and do a table read?', and you think; 'Oh well OK, there's loads of table reads'. Everything used to be; 'oh we like this we'll go straight to a pilot', people don't do that anymore.
So you do a table read, and then you go back, and then one of the actors changes because there's an unavailability and then that happens, then you do a table read in front of the big wigs and then you go away and forget about it. Then you get asked to come and do another table read, and there's a bigger table with more bigger wigger wiggers, and then you go away and you forget about it, and then they call you to do a pilot.
When we were doing the pilot - it was only a 20 minute, short pilot - even then I didn't know how it was going to work because, when we did the pilot I had no scenes with Judy, with Rebecca, so again I didn't know how those scenes were working, so it was still very fragmented. Then Rebecca called me from the Salford Comedy Festival and said; 'oh my God it's been so well received.'
But I think when you get to my age of 57 you get very cynical which is; 'yeah well, they probably laughed at it but that doesn't mean that the BBC are gonna...' - you just get very much like that! Then anyway the rest is history, they did commission it and here we are with it about to premiere on Thursday, which is great!
With it being such a funny show, were there any funny behind-the-scenes moments you can share with us?
Not really necessarily particular moments except that Janine Duvitski who plays Judy's mum, Peggy, has been one of my favourite actresses since I saw her in Abigail's Party in the 70s, probably one of my favourite TV plays ever. Then obviously I've watched her in Benidorm and I've met her a couple of times when I've been over there seeing Tim (Healy) or whatever, but she has got the dirtiest mind! She is absolutely rude! Very, very, very rude! She's one of those people that just has to walk in the room and she makes me laugh. She's going; 'What are you laughing at?', and I'd go; 'I'm sorry I'm not being rude Janine it's just that, you're f**king funny, you make me laugh'.
Then when Lizzie Roper came onboard who of course is a stand-up comic as well, you can imagine. We'd always have 'which one of the crew do you fancy if you were on a desert island and you could just take one member of the crew?' We'd have all of those things, and we all fancied the same one as well!
But yeah we had a really lovely time and we felt like, and I haven't felt like that for a while, we felt like we were on to something special when we were making it and that's always a good sign. How the audience will take it I don't know, you don't know that until it starts, but I think BBC Two is a very good home for it.
What do you think the show is going to do for the trans community and opinions towards the community in the UK?
I think you will always have dyed in the wool bigots, who will not change their views and think that people who are transgender, will call them 'freaks' and all of these horrible things that you hear go on. Those people are probably not gonna watch Boy Meets Girl, so I'm not gonna worry about those people, all I want is for people to think that this is a wonderful story, it's a love story, it's a coming together of two families, and I want people to go away thinking, not everybody is Caitlyn Jenner who gets a million Twitter fans within half an hour of joining Twitter. Most transgender people have struggled all of their lives and I wanted it to be an easier - if this show can make a tiny difference to their coming out and being able to transition in a more accepting world, and we can have a little tiny bit to do with that, then I think that it's a job well done. And for people who already feel that way and are very accepting of the trans community, I hope they just enjoy a Thursday night sitting in with a glass of wine or a cup of tea, having a good laugh and a little cry. It makes you laugh out loud one minute then you get a proper lump in your throat next minute.
Away from the show, I know you're a huge advocate for breaking away the stigma surrounding other big issues such as mental health, how do you think the UK is doing now in regards to that?
I think we're doing a lot better and bearing in mind I've suffered from mental health problems for 26 years, because mine started when I had Matthew which is how a lot of women's life-long battle with depression starts, with postnatal depression. Ignorant people say; 'you had postnatal depression, that was 26 years ago', well of course it was, but it opened up a tendancy to depression in me which I still live with.
I consider that I suffer from depression. I suffer very rarely nowadays but I talk about it in the present tense. I live with a mental illness and I live very successfully and happily with it most of the time, but it'll always be there. I've got much better at dealing with it. I know the signs, I know the symptoms, I know that it will go away, and once you know it will go away it is still horrible, but it is easier to get through those episodes.
I think that we have made massive strides in the 26 years I have suffered, however we still have a long, long way to go and unfortunately we have bigoted people like Katie Hopkins who are intent on putting the cause back. But I think after the disaster that is her show, no matter how much she tries to big it up on Twitter, I think that maybe Katie Hopkins 15 minutes is on its way out. I think we might be up to the fourteenth minute now with any luck. But do you know, she doesn't realise the damage she does with the things she says, because what it does is, with young people, she sort of has a mean girl following, and those people who may with the right education have been able to understand people with depression, they read something that she says and it's almost like; 'oh it's OK to think that now, it's OK to kick the fat ginger kid, it's OK because Katie Hopkins says it is'.
And all this about; 'oh I'm not really like that' makes it worse for me, because if you're not really like that f**king grow up you stupid b**ch, and stop saying these things just to make a bit of money.
But no as I say we will always have people like her, but hopefully you've always got people like me that will fly the flag. If I help one person a day, then that's a positive impact on educating people in regards to mental health.
And finally Denise what else do you have coming up? We know you'll be at G-A-Y in London in October...
(laughs) Yes! Somebody said to me recently; 'Denise can you not be a little more accepting of the gay community?' (laughs)
I've just finished, pretty much coming to the end of my first novel which comes out in time for Mother's Day next year. I'm hugely excited because, obviously I had a known story to tell when I did my autobiography, people knew there was gonna be lots of sex, drugs and rock'n'roll because that has sadly been my life, but doing a novel is not my story it's completely different, and so I'm very honoured to have a publishing deal for two novels, and the first one comes out on February 16 and it's called If My Friends Could See Me Now. Although it's not about me it's drawn from parallels in my life because that's what I know. I'm very, very excited about that. It's very stressful and it's very hard work, but I have a wonderful team, a wonderful editor and a wonderful team at Little Brown Publishing, and so I'm excited and I hope everybody will rush out and read it when it comes out!
Boy Meets Girl starts Thursday, September 3 at 9.30pm on BBC Two.
The series is released on DVD on October 12.
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