Betty Anne Waters
Conviction hits the big screen this week as Hilary Swank and Sam Rockwell team up to tell the story of Betty Anne Waters and her brother Kenny.
The movie follows a working mother puts herself through law school in an effort to represent her brother, who has been wrongfully convicted of murder and has exhausted his chances to appeal his conviction through public defenders.
- How many times have you seen the film and what was your initial reaction?
I’ve seen it 3 times and always in tears. The first time I saw it was with my friend Abra Rice and the director, Tony Goldwyn, because he knew it would be tough.
The second time I was with my son Richard and my sister Barbara in New York, and again it was pretty tough. We were going to go out afterwards but couldn’t because we were all so over whelmed.
- How do you feel about it now?
It’s pretty amazing to watch the film although I’m very still emotional. But I feel good about it; I think they all did a fabulous job.
It’s easier for me to see Sam playing my brother, or Juliette Lewis playing Roseanna Perry and Minnie did a great job playing my close friend Abra Rice. in one way it’s harder for me looking at Hilary because she’s such a fantastic actor and I still find it strange that she’s up there being me.
It’s hard, when someone else plays you. She got my accent down so well; on set I’d hear her speak and I'd think it was me.
- How did the film come about? Were you a bit suspicious when Hollywood approached to do a film of your life?
Yes of course I was. The day my brother was released from prison it was in all the papers. My brother was the 83rd person to be exonerated as a result of DNA testing and I thought it would be in the paper for a day; it wasn’t and Hollywood kept calling me.
My brother would say, ‘Betty Anne, there’s gonna be a movie about you so you better answer the phone.’ At first I thought, no, but then I decided that I needed to be proactive. If there was going to be a movie made, better for it to be made properly.
I contacted Barry Scheck, from The Innocence Project, and he put me in touch with Andy Karsch, who is now one of the film’s producers.
Kenny, myself, Abra, Aidan [who owns the bar she has always worked in] and Barry all had lunch together with Andy who said, ‘We want to make this movie about you, but Kenny is also a character that will be played properly.’ He was the first person to say that to me and acknowledge Kenny.
Everybody else had said, ‘it’s about you, it’s about you!’, and I was saying, ‘How can it be about me when my brother had spent 18yrs in prison?’. Andy always stressed that Kenny was going to be going to be right out there on the screen.
From then on it snowballed and everyone else I met; Pamela Gray the screenwriter and all the actors involved were really wonderful.
- You were on the set a lot - it must have been quite surreal?
It was different being on set than watching the movie because on set you’re watching people playing the same scene for 8 hours in slightly different ways, you don’t know which one is going to end up in the final cut.
To see the final version was still shocking and funny because when I was watching Hilary I thought, ‘I’m seeing this great actress,’ then I’d think, ‘wait a minute she’s just like me!’. It was pretty weird. Seeing Sam playing my brother was more emotional for me.
- How difficult was it, after all you went through both physically and mentally to go back to those places you and your brother experienced as children, especially after he died?
It was really difficult. It had always been hard to go back there, even before he died, because of him being convicted.
It’s a sad place to go back to in every way. Seeing Kenny and myself as children, it’s like it was yesterday.
- Can you explain why you and your brother had such a strong bond?
We were a large family and very close. Kenny and I were best friends growing up. Our friendship started in first grade, I was in first and he was in second, and his teacher used to bring him to class and sit him next to me and say, ‘act like your sister,’ I would tell him to do his homework, even though he was older he looked up to me. He always made me feel very special, like I could do anything.
- You had a tough upbringing. Do you think it was adversity that brought you together?
I don’t know. I don’t think so. We were just naturally close and very adventurous. I look at my childhood and we had a lot of fun and a lot of freedom. When you look at the film and you see us stealing candy, we were having a ball… real fun.
- The movie leaves a little doubt about the innocence of your brother, how did you feel about that?
I understand it because I lived it, through people thinking my brother was guilty. I stopped telling people he was in prison and that he was innocent because people would look at me, I could see that they felt sorry for me because I thought he was innocent and they thought I was just deluded.
- Was there ever a point in time when he was in prison that you thought he was guilty?
No never. I knew Kenny very well. If someone confronted him, he didn’t know how to handle the situation and he would fight back, but he was never the aggressor; he simply wouldn’t go up to someone and start a fight.
So I knew that. I also had the evidence from day one. Kenny had the perfect alibi; he’d worked at the diner the night before until 8 am and he was in court at 9am for assaulting a local police officer.
For the first time in his life I was so happy that he was in court. We knew from the evidence that he didn’t do it.
He was arrested two and half years later and convicted; later, the physical evidence went missing, but I knew he was innocent.
- Were you surprised when you found out Kenny was set up?
I was surprised that he was found guilty because I thought the jury would clearly see that the girls were lying. I heard police officers contradicting the witnesses when they said he was in bed drunk; he wasn’t because he was in court.
On that reason alone I thought there was no way he would be convicted. I couldn’t believe the jury believed them and not the police!
I was shocked when he went to prison. I thought only guilty people went to prison, but now I know different.
There have been 259 exonerees up until now. I hope this movie will someday prompt people to question a dubious conviction and set free another innocent person.
- Do you think the police woman, Nancy Taylor, who set him up will get her just desserts when the film comes out?
I think that she will be in denial because how could you live with yourself? it’s not just my brother that she did this to; I found out there’s another guy, Dennis Meyer, who was released two days after my brother and she was the police officer who had coerced witnesses into lying against him.
I’m sure they’re probably not the only two. How does she live with that? She says things like ‘I don’t believe in DNA.’!
- Do you have any sour grapes now towards the system?
I feel differently about the system now. There was a time when I was really against it, but since I met Barry Scheck and everyone involved in The Innocence Project, I can’t feel that way.
When I think of the system I think of them and I feel good about the work they’re doing and fortunate that I can help them. I hope this movie gets them more assistance and recognition.
- What gave you the courage to become a lawyer? It’s not easy for anyone to do.
Kenny gave me the courage. The movie says it was my idea but it was definitely Kenny’s. We used to talk at least twice a week, but after Kenny’s appeals failed he was suicidal, I didn’t hear from him at all.
I knew he was upset so I called his lawyer and found he’d been isolated for trying to kill himself. I was upset with him when we eventually spoke. He said that he didn’t think he would make it if he had to spend the rest of his life in prison as an innocent man.
In that same conversation he said that if I went back to school and got into law school and became a lawyer, I could get him out of there.
I told him, ‘You know Kenny, I have a GED but it’s a long way from law school.’. He didn’t care how long it took, he promised that if I enrolled in school he would stay alive. So I enrolled in community college.
- How long did it take from that conversation to actually qualify?
Twelve years.
- Was there a time when you almost gave up under the pressure because you had a husband, two children and a job?
Not that I would have ever given up, but there was a time when my kids were growing up that I had to go to college, work and look after the kids.
I didn’t have time to open a book but, because I was so convinced of his innocence, I never gave up. I just couldn’t.
- When you’re brother came out what was the first thing he noticed that was different?
We were with Barry Scheck in a cell before he went into the courtroom, and Barry’s cell phone went off. Kenny was like, ‘what’s that?’ he’d never seen or heard a cell phone. It was pretty weird. There were so many things that had changed since he was sent to prison.
We were in my car driving to the airport and he said, ‘this car looks like an airplane!’. We don’t think of things like that because we see progress but he had 18 years in seclusion. Think of all the changes between 1983 and 2001, most had passed him by.
- Is there any one experience that really sticks out for you after he was released?
We were guests on all the morning shows in New York and we stayed in this luxurious hotel that had this enormous bed. He told me that he only slept on the corner because he was so used to his cell bed and was afraid to move.
He took a bath for the first time in 18 years and we ordered room service. We both ordered steak dinners and he ate both of them! He was rather notorious, so, if we went to a nightclub, he would talk to everybody and everybody would talk to him.
I remember him calling me and saying, ’Betty Anne you’ve got to come out, everyone wants to meet my sister.’ and I'd reply, ‘Kenny its midnight and I’m in bed!’ He was living that kind of life.
- So he was enjoying being a celebrity?
He certainly did.
- Did you take to it?
I don’t like it. Everybody says that, but I’m hoping that all this doesn’t really change my life.
They were going to call the movie Betty Anne Waters, I am so, so glad they changed their minds. I could not have been happier.
- Do you practice as a lawyer now?
No, I work at Aidan's pub and I do what I can to help with The Innocence Project. I’m happy doing that. I hope this movie will open people’s eyes, just like mine were, and show that not everyone in prison is guilty.
I live for the day when someone will tell me that because of this movie another innocent person has been released.
- Looking back, would you do the same again today if you had to?
Absolutely. My brother’s 6 months of freedom were the best 6 months of his life. It made it all worth it. It was the best.
- What do you think Kenny would say about the movie?
He would be so happy. He would be thrilled to talk to everybody. He’d be on top of the world.
Conviction is released 14th January.
Conviction hits the big screen this week as Hilary Swank and Sam Rockwell team up to tell the story of Betty Anne Waters and her brother Kenny.
The movie follows a working mother puts herself through law school in an effort to represent her brother, who has been wrongfully convicted of murder and has exhausted his chances to appeal his conviction through public defenders.
- How many times have you seen the film and what was your initial reaction?
I’ve seen it 3 times and always in tears. The first time I saw it was with my friend Abra Rice and the director, Tony Goldwyn, because he knew it would be tough.
The second time I was with my son Richard and my sister Barbara in New York, and again it was pretty tough. We were going to go out afterwards but couldn’t because we were all so over whelmed.
- How do you feel about it now?
It’s pretty amazing to watch the film although I’m very still emotional. But I feel good about it; I think they all did a fabulous job.
It’s easier for me to see Sam playing my brother, or Juliette Lewis playing Roseanna Perry and Minnie did a great job playing my close friend Abra Rice. in one way it’s harder for me looking at Hilary because she’s such a fantastic actor and I still find it strange that she’s up there being me.
It’s hard, when someone else plays you. She got my accent down so well; on set I’d hear her speak and I'd think it was me.
- How did the film come about? Were you a bit suspicious when Hollywood approached to do a film of your life?
Yes of course I was. The day my brother was released from prison it was in all the papers. My brother was the 83rd person to be exonerated as a result of DNA testing and I thought it would be in the paper for a day; it wasn’t and Hollywood kept calling me.
My brother would say, ‘Betty Anne, there’s gonna be a movie about you so you better answer the phone.’ At first I thought, no, but then I decided that I needed to be proactive. If there was going to be a movie made, better for it to be made properly.
I contacted Barry Scheck, from The Innocence Project, and he put me in touch with Andy Karsch, who is now one of the film’s producers.
Kenny, myself, Abra, Aidan [who owns the bar she has always worked in] and Barry all had lunch together with Andy who said, ‘We want to make this movie about you, but Kenny is also a character that will be played properly.’ He was the first person to say that to me and acknowledge Kenny.
Everybody else had said, ‘it’s about you, it’s about you!’, and I was saying, ‘How can it be about me when my brother had spent 18yrs in prison?’. Andy always stressed that Kenny was going to be going to be right out there on the screen.
From then on it snowballed and everyone else I met; Pamela Gray the screenwriter and all the actors involved were really wonderful.
- You were on the set a lot - it must have been quite surreal?
It was different being on set than watching the movie because on set you’re watching people playing the same scene for 8 hours in slightly different ways, you don’t know which one is going to end up in the final cut.
To see the final version was still shocking and funny because when I was watching Hilary I thought, ‘I’m seeing this great actress,’ then I’d think, ‘wait a minute she’s just like me!’. It was pretty weird. Seeing Sam playing my brother was more emotional for me.
- How difficult was it, after all you went through both physically and mentally to go back to those places you and your brother experienced as children, especially after he died?
It was really difficult. It had always been hard to go back there, even before he died, because of him being convicted.
It’s a sad place to go back to in every way. Seeing Kenny and myself as children, it’s like it was yesterday.
- Can you explain why you and your brother had such a strong bond?
We were a large family and very close. Kenny and I were best friends growing up. Our friendship started in first grade, I was in first and he was in second, and his teacher used to bring him to class and sit him next to me and say, ‘act like your sister,’ I would tell him to do his homework, even though he was older he looked up to me. He always made me feel very special, like I could do anything.
- You had a tough upbringing. Do you think it was adversity that brought you together?
I don’t know. I don’t think so. We were just naturally close and very adventurous. I look at my childhood and we had a lot of fun and a lot of freedom. When you look at the film and you see us stealing candy, we were having a ball… real fun.