Dr Aric Sigman
What can you tell us about your new book The Body Wars?
Issues with bodies has understandably been dominated by women and it’s obvious that would be the case because it’s a female issue. Although men do have problems they are very different. On the whole women want to be smaller- men want to be bigger. When you look at the rates of eating disorders, particularly anorexia women are many more times likely to develop these things, as such women dominate the field.
I felt that men don’t understand how important a woman’s body image is to her. Because most men have a wife or a partner, half of all fathers will have daughters. It’s very important that men start to become more vocal. I think that a male voice in this area could be very helpful. I feel that as husbands and partners, we can help counter the negative messages that a lot of our partners have received since they were toddlers. Those of us fathers who have daughters need to be aware of this and help counter a lot of the damaging and negative images and messages that our daughters are getting. I do health education for a living and I go directly to schools and speak to children of all different ages. I speak to their parents and teachers on several health education subjects. Alcohol, excessive recreational screen time and body image- trying to prevent eating disorders. That is a very different thing from dealing with children who already have an eating disorder and suggesting “this is what you should do”. A much greater problem in Britain is poor body image particularly amongst girls. The reason I began giving talks on this was because body dissatisfaction or body image didn’t used to become an issue until girl started to reach puberty. They started to see their bodies change and would look in the mirror and maybe become uncomfortable with what they saw. This is now showing up in three year olds- we never saw his before in that age group
Why are children becoming increasingly preoccupied with their appearance?
Children are now exposed to many times more slender images, more than your mother or your grandmother. In a week a child who is three or four will probably see more images of slender females than your grandmother will have seen in a lifetime. Because of the rise of electronic media they have iPads they have televisions- several different devices. Whatever they are watching; TV presenters or other sorts of things, it’s very unlikely that those images would be of a normal body shape and size. So their base line for a normal size female to judge themselves by has been distorted by thousands of distorted points of comparison from a very early age. It’s thought that girls and women of all ages have an in-built evolutionary system; a social comparison system. They have even discovered what appear to be brain circuits which seem to analyse another female body shape and size and another section of the brain comparing your with theirs and deciding whether you are happy or upset about it. There has been some new neurological evidence that there is something in female brains that appears to be hardwired to be very sensitive to comparing their own physiques with that of another woman on a screen. It doesn’t happen when you compare your own sitting room décor with another woman’s décor on the screen. But it does happen when it’s with another body shape and size. From a very early age, the point of comparison has been distorted and the mechanism is called the ‘contrast effect’. They feel that this mechanism whereby you compare yourself to others was normal- you would normally compare yourself with people who lived in your village or in a small space like your workplace. You would look at people and think that you were heavier or smaller- your body fat distribution was different compared to the people that are physically around you. Now the vast majority of those points of comparison are on the screen from figures from far away and they are all slender. This seems to have triggered changes in the way that girls and women including pensioners judge their bodies. Recent research finds that many women over 50, including those over 75, have made themselves vomit over the last five years.
Why are pensioners becoming more worried about their appearance too, when they are of a different generation?
It seems to in recent years that they are too being increasingly exposed to images of younger, more slender women on TV, the internet and magazines. The media has got to them as well. From pre-school to pensioner, we are seeing body dissatisfaction rising dramatically in age groups which should not be affected by that kind of self-consciousness. This really is new and in relation to this is the number of eating disorders. We haven’t got reliable numbers but it does seem in real terms that it's affecting girls at younger ages. Young girls are ending up in hospital because of things like anorexia. So body dissatisfaction has risen and the new term being used by scientists to describe this state of affairs is called ‘normative discontent’. It is used to describe the finding that it’s normal to be dissatisfied with your body and not be content with your body. The strange thing is that slender women are often no more satisfied with their bodies than women who are overweight. It has little to do with how fat you are or not. It has everything to do with how you see yourself. That is what people didn't realise before; obviously we have an obesity problem in Britain. Women who are overweight are assumed to be dissatisfied with their bodies. It doesn’t work that way. Very often it’s the worried-well. There have been some real changes and there is now increased body dissatisfaction, which is a big risk factor for going on to develop eating disorders. The biggest killer for women when it comes to psychological problems is anorexia. It is a huge killer so there are very good reasons why I felt we need to tackle body dissatisfaction. Just to give you an idea- it’s the UK’s deadliest psychological condition, killing more people in Britain that all substance misuse put together. A couple of other shocking points for comparison- when you look at females in the UK aged 15-24, the death rate from anorexia is 12 times higher than that of all causes of death in that age group. For example, if you look at Britain- given its current rate of anorexia between 7,000 and 14,000 girls and women will ultimately die, this is far greater than the number of women killed by violence or heterosexually contracted AIDS. People don’t realise that this is a huge killer, they are very well aware of things like domestic violence. One hundred women are killed a year by this, perhaps 36 by sexually-contracted HIV or AIDS. We are talking about really big numbers. If you want to look at the US- when you consider the total number of American service men killed in the entire Afghan war since it started in 2001, there will be 13 times more females and girls who will ultimately die of anorexia than all the soldiers put together since the war started. That is 28,558 girls and women with anorexia will ultimately die as a result of their condition. Although my book is not about eating disorders, there are very good reasons to include this in there- body dissatisfaction is known as a big risk factor for some girls who will go onto develop an eating disorder. I felt that if we can address body dissatisfaction in girls and women, we can in short cut the death rate and prevent an awful lot of unhappiness. For the majority of women who will never develop an eating disorder they should not have to lead their lives thinking that there is something wrong with them. That is an appalling burden for more than half the world’s population to have to feel like. Those were the motivations- they were health motivations and I am also a father. I have two sons and two daughters. I felt that the idea that my daughters will be culturally brow beaten and bullied. As it happens they both are relatively slender but the idea that they could both be bullied by this culture or to feel as if they should always be looking at the mirror to make sure that they are not fat makes me angry as a father. I have more fire in my belly because I have a protective instinct. Coming from a family of 5 boys, this seems very strange that such a high portion of women should be made to feel unattractive when it comes to their bodies. I didn’t get it until I became a father and then I started to see this world opening up of dieting and pressures that women are under. There is a chapter in the book about how men do body dissatisfaction and how they do eating disorders as a point of comparison so readers can see how men do it. It is a different thing but I do give talks to boys about bodybuilding and protein supplements and the market that tries to make them feel weak. There is a huge rise in what is called muscle dysmorphia but this is so new that we don’t know how to deal with it. We know a lot more about women and eating disorders but the rise in men is something that the authorities can’t cope with yet. The forms of body problems are different in boys and men so it’s a much newer thing. I think I need to specialise in that in a different way and that is not the main point of this book anyway. Mothers who have sons; there is a big section in there about that because it is a big problem right now for parents. So what I did in order to try and deal with this is to approach it in a different way to how it has been dealt with already. I don’t think that telling women to ‘learn to love’ their bodies is the right thing. It is a pop phrase- “you need to learn to love yourself,” but I feel that women should not have to think about their bodies as much, daughters should not have to think about their bodies as much. We should be able to take them for granted and the idea of focusing upon your body, thinking about your body consciously. Learning to love it is spending an awful lot of time objectifying yourself and standing outside of yourself looking and assessing yourself. I think that is not what women and girls need to do, they should not be as consciously aware of their bodies and go on and lead their lives. One of the main messages was that because it’s different from what has gone before and a couple of other things that I felt were important was that the reasons why women may or may not diet and are very concerned about their bodies is not necessarily to do with what men and boys think. However, I felt it was important to give a point of comparison. I wrote a chapter and started off with a phrase from a woman called Nadine Gordimer- someone showed this to me. A quote in her book read: ‘he liked plumpness in a woman- the flesh that takes in the edges and splinters of a man’s fate’. The upshot of it is that men have a very kinder and different view of female body fat than women do. Women are highly judgemental about their body fat and they equate ‘more body fat equals uglier, less body fat equals more attractive’. Men’s minds don’t work that way. One of the many things I looked at was ‘what men want’ and for example when you look at women the night they become pregnant, in America nearly 60% and in Australia nearly 50% are obese or overweight. It sounds crass but what does that say? It obviously indicates the men do not find women who have got body fat repulsive or ugly. One thing men can’t do is to fake it and I thought that was an important point- what the media say is very different. I have a lot of studies where they wire a man up and put electrodes all over the place- the lie detector test so to speak on the totem pole of truth.
How can husbands, partners and fathers to help fight to change the way women feel about themselves?
I think first of all whenever they do see images presented by the media- fathers should start to comment. I think it’s important that they have a talk with their daughters about message their daughters are going to receive and that generally men do not find women’s body fat ugly. The fact is that the fat on a woman’s hips thighs and bottoms is a central part of sexual attraction. It has been for thousands of years and it is in every single country studied. The media is telling you that pear-shaped is ugly and they need to get rid of that notion. Fathers need to do it in a diplomatic way- to say that this is an important part of being a girl and woman. Boys and men find this a defining aspect- one of the main differences in men and women is the difference in body fat distribution. It is a very different thing from what the media is telling girls and fathers can help redress that. Indirectly by being affectionate towards your female partner- the mother of your daughter, especially if that mother has some muffin tops. Daughters may find this cringle-worthy when I am openly affectionate to her mother because that is what teenage daughters are supposed to do- almost as bad if not worse than her dad doing the dad dance at one of her parties. The bottom line is that, although daughters might not like their father being affectionate to their mother in front of them- the message that goes into a daughter’s brain is that mum may be slightly chubbier, mum might have a muffin top or be a pear shaped but dad fancies mum and he loves her. I am not suggesting grope your wife in front of your kids but I think you get my point. Just being affectionate- the messages are real- everyday ambient messages. Also to say to your wife or partner if she is constantly complaining and we are asked that daily question ‘does this make me look fat?’ Fathers should most certainly not say ‘no it’s your fat that makes you look fat darling’- these honest answers are a very bad idea but when women are very concerned about their shape and body, I think husbands should pipe up and say ‘listen- you’re wrong- I really fancy you and you are telling me that I have got bad taste. When you start dissing the way you look- I had sex with you last night and you are telling me that I have got low standards- I don’t.’ I know it’s a very masculine way to talk about this- it isn't the way that women deal with it, but men and women are not the same and I don’t think they think about this in the same way. In a clumsy way, husbands, partners and fathers can say things in a male way which makes the point. It’s not going to overcome the body dissatisfaction problems that we have but I think in a home environment it can help bolster a woman’s background confidence. I think husbands can make the point- ‘I don’t find your body fat ugly this is a female thing it comes from the media. I am only concerned about you being healthy. If you are genuinely obese and you may become unhealthy and I can still fancy you- it doesn’t mean that you are unattractive but for health reasons if you want to do exercise and lose weight that is one thing. But I fancy you and I don’t think that you need to get rid of your body fat because of some cultural norm which I think is distorted.’
You have written Remotely Controlled, The Spoilt Generation and Alcohol Nation as well as this book, so what can you tell us about each of these?
There is a similar theme- these are all about health issues, which deal with society’s norms that are not good. Alcohol Nation for example- in Britain for instance- people like to drink, people love to get drunk and they are proud of it. They feel the best way to protect their children from ever having an alcohol problem is to teach them how to drink responsibly and introduce them to the world of alcohol early. They focus on the notion that the child will learn. They ignore the fact however that if they don’t want their kid to become a coke head- your wouldn’t teach them sensible snorting. We know that every addictive drug follows the same medical principle- the earlier you introduce the teenage brain to any addictive substance- the more likely they are to become addicted to it- except alcohol. Brits feel that this is different- get it into them early to protect them and avoid disappointment and addiction. It’s now been shown to be wrong and I felt it was important to explain the brain mechanisms and explore how we can protect children from having an alcohol problem. If you simply say wait until they are a bit older until you give them alcohol, it sounds like a cultural and moral argument but it isn’t; alcohol in this country has been treated as a social and moral thing. Really it’s a health thing- a neurological thing or neuro-pharmacological issue that needs to be explained to parents. Many parents here are exposed to conflicting messages eg. if you drink wine you will live longer vs if you drink wine you are going to get cancer the alcohol industry wants you to think different things. Yet the main issue is how to protect your children from having an alcohol addiction not just when they are teenagers but also long after you are dead-40 years from now you can protect them from alcohol problems if you introduce them to alcohol at a later age.
People are understandably concerned about the degrees of sex and violence that children are exposed to on the screen. What they were not paying attention to was when their homework is done, the sheer amount of their spare time they spend in front of recreational screen media; this screen time has gone up and up. It has come about because the screens are now portable, so small and cheap and each screen is multifunctional and can do what other screens can do so you will find a lot of 3 year olds are now on the net. Media consumption in a child’s spare time is just incomparable to a generation ago. What they don’t realise is that whatever they are watching (and it does make a difference) the sheer number of hours of recreational screen time is related in a dose-response or medical manner to health outcomes. Ranging from the emotional and social skills to changes in blood chemistry. Things, like changes in insulin and other specific compounds seem to start changing for the worse after a certain amount of time and body fat is the big one – there’s a huge link with screen time and body fat. It isn’t because you are sedentary, everyone assumes that it’s because you are sitting down- yet the same thing doesn’t seem to happen with books. Many of these problems are not just to do with being sedentary. There is something about the nature of moving and stimulating the body that does different things when you have been doing it for a long time, that doesn't seem to happen with reading a book on a kindle. I felt it was important to explain the medical side of this. There is a huge issue aside from the content of what they are watching, it’s the amount. The main point of the book is that screen time is a form of consumption, just like chocolate, just like salt, alcohol or sugar. It needs to have numbers that are linked with healthy outcomes and unhealthy outcomes.
In the Spoilt Generation I felt that there was a cultural change where parents wanted to be best friends with their children and negotiate with their kids. Children need authority- not authoritarian, insensitive parenting but I feel that you can’t be best friends with your children. That is why you are called parent and they are called a child. Because of this we have had many of the problems we are currently having with children. It isn't a question of going back to the 1950s. If felt it was more important to explain in more scientific terms that we may have moved on, but children’s needs have not and will not move on. They have basic needs that will not move on and one of those needs is to have boundaries and limits and they were basically being robbed of those boundaries and limits and that children feel more insecure if they don't have them. Each parent can have their own different boundaries and limits- mine are not the same as the guy next door. That is fine but there have to be some and consequences for transgressing. It is nothing to do with smacking or beating your children, I am saying that you can’t allow your children to do whatever they want without there being consequences when they defy you. This goes against the current culture which is to negotiate and say that “we are best friends”, it explained the reasons why and tried to not be a parenting book. I feel parents have ‘outsourced’ their parenting to so called experts but to try and get parents to go back to their own parenting instincts and feel that they have a right to parent in a way that they feel is right. Within reason of course but I think parenting has been professionalised and that parents should try to get a feeling for what feels right and to do it. Why restoring authority is important not just in the household but in school- the ability to keep authority in the classroom. I hear from my children that other kids are screaming expletives at teachers and young kids are throwing chairs at teachers. There has been a real rise in parent battering, where girls at ten years old will beat up their mothers and kick them down the stairs. Children throwing things at their nursery teachers- this has risen in real terms in recent years. Part of it is the lack of authority in homes but part of it is a general social stepping back from having figures of authority who have authority and who are deputised to introduce limits an boundaries. I think a lot of this has been eroded and we need to have joined-up parenting. We need parents at home who have the authority to parent but also those ‘extended-parents’ - teachers, police, nurses and doctor, people walking down the street who see children doing something naughty should be deputized to deal with that, within reason. Generally we become suspicious of them. It’s then become a case of children slipping through the net.