Womens rights -> has the world come far enough?

[amina_m]

We sit here in the western world with the freedom of choice.

While many women in the world face a much hasher reality...should we not be working harder for the rights of women around the world!

Are we just sleeping in the west to the reality of women elsewhere in the world?

Can our ignorance be justified?

[mid-life male]

though i agree that it is a HUMAN responsibility to work worldwide towards full equality between both genders, it is rediculous to suggest that we are close to this goal in the western world. there is much work to do.

as a woman friend has told me, "we will have achieved full equality between men and women when there are as many incompetent, greedy and abusive women in places of power as there are men of the same ilk."

[steve20]

Well, there are really two issues on the table. Women's rights (which I heartily support), and the political right of one nation to impose its social views on another (which I vehemently oppose). I sure as sh*t don't want some islamic government over here telling me how to conduct myself according to their moral code. Real change must come from within. Certainly as women around the world begin to stand up for themselves, of their own initiative, we should do every reasonable thing to help them.

[Dating Desert]

the problem is that you can't change culture....moreover, you'd be surprised how many of these eastern women agree with the way their societies think. some of the ones I've met are hopelessly backward and couldn't care less about equality.

[steve20]

DD: Now that's where I would part company with you. Let me be clear...I fully support women's rights. Chief among these, however, is a woman's right to her own opinion. If a woman agrees with her culture when it places certain restrictions on her gender, that is her right and I support it. I do not believe that patriarchalist women are all mentally ill or brain washed. We must not impose our western values on people who do not -- of their own free will -- want those values.

[Dating Desert]

DD: Now that's where I would part company with you. Let me be clear...I fully support women's rights. Chief among these, however, is a woman's right to her own opinion. If a woman agrees with her culture when it places certain restrictions on her gender, that is her right and I support it. I do not believe that patriarchalist women are all mentally ill or brain washed. We must not impose our western values on people who do not -- of their own free will -- want those values.

I don't see anyone using the terms "mentally ill" or "brainwashed". I don't know your ethnic roots but mine are partially eastern. As much as some foreign men have a negative image in the West, what people are not aware of is the way a large percentage of the way the women think. Some people posting here would be taken aback. In some cultures, the women use the men as much as the men do the women most often using pregnancy as emotional blackmail and insurance against divorce. The mistress culture is thriving throughout large chunks of the world such as the MidEast and North Africa and the wives are fine with it. Others approve of spousal abuse for specific reasons.

What I am saying is that these things cannot be changed. It becomes really bad when these communities migrate to the West because they cannot fit in no matter how long they have lived abroad for.

[Dating Desert]

What I also forgot to add is that women's rights, freedom will always start with financial independence. If people want to fight for something...

[steve20]

DD: Forgive me. You did not say "Mentally ill" or "Brainwashed". Having had this conversation a few times, I was merely anticipating some common objections.

[Dating Desert]

I see...its very hard to respect let alone appreciate some cultural differences. I to some as backwards but its a large step from mentally ill or brainwashed. People are a products of their environments.

[steve20]

DD: I take it then that in the debate between "nature" and "nurture", you side heavily with "nurture"?

[Dating Desert]

Well, my answers are clear.

There are always exceptions to rules but not that many. In some cultures, its a huge deal to find anyone who criticizes their background. People don't like conceding that there are lifestyles, ways of thinking that cause embarrassment or hurt the image of communities. Its common in eastern/Muslim communities to insist that the people are "strong minded" (esp. when related to marital problems) when this could not be further from the truth. The entire concept of self is western and in other cultures, life is about making everyone else happy. I think this is really sad and destructive but glad its not me forced to live this life.

[gondola]

DD: Now that's where I would part company with you. Let me be clear...I fully support women's rights. Chief among these, however, is a woman's right to her own opinion. If a woman agrees with her culture when it places certain restrictions on her gender, that is her right and I support it. I do not believe that patriarchalist women are all mentally ill or brain washed. We must not impose our western values on people who do not -- of their own free will -- want those values.

I agree with you!

[Dating Desert]

DD: Now that's where I would part company with you. Let me be clear...I fully support women's rights. Chief among these, however, is a woman's right to her own opinion. If a woman agrees with her culture when it places certain restrictions on her gender, that is her right and I support it. I do not believe that patriarchalist women are all mentally ill or brain washed. We must not impose our western values on people who do not -- of their own free will -- want those values.

I agree with you!

assuming, of course, that you never fall deeply in love with, say, an Indian girl who returns the feelings and then turns her back on you because pleasing the parents come first.

[DarkratX]

Oh boy, quite the can of worms. I've got alot to say on this, but ill try to keep it to a minimum.

First off: I support equality of all types, races, sexual preferences, sexes and anything else that oculd be construed as different.

I do not, however, support some of the attitudes certain women have taken to men. I attend a university in Canada on the . coast, in the crux of the femenist movement. On a daily (and I do mean daily) basis I am glared at and sworn at by women for doing acts so little as oppening doors for them, which I would do for anyone who crossed my path. I see instances where women bash other women for agreeing with men on some sex-based issues, stomping on the woman's oppinion hypocritically; the very thing they fight against.

another point: Women ARE different from men. While they should have the same rights and opportunities as any other individual, it should always be remembered that men, through evolution, were selected to think and act differently from women. When femenists say things like "there are more men in high-up businesses" or "more men in engineering", perhaps there is a reason. Men have a larger BIOLOGICAL drive to achieve and expand. We still carry the remnants of our ancestors which tell us to go as far as you can, as well as you can. Other data supports that men and women think differently... men more mathematically and strategically, women more socially. So when more men are in one place in society, why should anyone be surprised?

I would like to point out at this point that I DID grow up in a very equal household, and have been surrounded constantly by an environment of the same, so i may not have expereinced the inequality to which women refer.

That is all.

[WiredCoffeeJunkie]

Bah. People are people.

If women were raised to be leaders and it was a skill they developed from childhood games throughout their lives, then they would be every bit as prepared and want leadership roles as men are. As it is, many either have no desire for it or haven't the skills for it. It can be taught, but it's as difficult to reverse a lifetime of training as it is to pick up a life long skill. That's not to say some countries are not further along than others. The UK for instance is far more "liberated" than the US.