Military Service

[GayandProud]

Long story short, I was researching something for my upcoming exams and happened to read about military service in Angola and the law relating to it.

All Angolan males between 20 and 45 have to do 2 years military service. Desertion is a crime with up to 12 years imprisonment and evasion is punishable by increasing the term to 4 years.

I know other countries have compulsory military service. The UK and the US do not. I wondered what you thought about that and whether compulsory military service is a good idea or not?

[The Colonel]

Long story short, I was researching something for my upcoming exams and happened to read about military service in Angola and the law relating to it.

All Angolan males between 20 and 45 have to do 2 years military service. Desertion is a crime with up to 12 years imprisonment and evasion is punishable by increasing the term to 4 years.

I know other countries have compulsory military service. The UK and the US do not. I wondered what you thought about that and whether compulsory military service is a good idea or not?

No, it isn't a good idea. Numerous reasons:

- It would cost far too much to implement,
- desertion etc. would cost even more and tie down the police,
- jails are already full,
- you can't force a person to fight - it doesn't happen that way,
- our nation, and our young, do not need it,
- not everyone is physically able or particularly "sporty/macho" etc,
- women (as ever) would be exempt from it,
- If it was done after schooling (either 16 or 18 plus) it would interfere with university and would destroy higher education,
- Also, I have no desire to see a generation of unfit (i.e. not natural military men) murdered in places like Iraq.

If the UK Government had their way, they'd have every 16-45 year old in Iraq and Afghanistan (more realistically those 16-26).

As far as I am concerned, the state has no right to call anyone to serve like this.

It would only be acceptable if it was for a "Home Guard" duty in the event of a direct threat of invasion to the homeland.

[drew]

nope mainly becouse i dont want to do it , a firend of mine has just about to ship out cyprus befor the send him off to irqu in a year

i could probaly make slection (if i quit smoking) but i dont want to kill people just becouse im told to if i have to kill then id rather kill for a good reason,

how ever crimnials conscripted to the army im all for, or making them do S*** jobs no one wants to do

[Jane_]

I wondered what you thought about that and whether compulsory military service is a good idea or not?

Good to see you're actually studying ! To your question: From what you and I have discussed and studied I can only conclude that compulsory military service is an abomination.

[The Colonel]

I wondered what you thought about that and whether compulsory military service is a good idea or not?

Good to see you're actually studying ! To your question: From what you and I have discussed and studied I can only conclude that compulsory military service is an abomination.

Love the use of the word "abomination" there Jane. My thoughts exactly.

[Lena]

For my parents generation the draft was good since guys could escape the hills and make money .

My ex step dad told all of us we'd be enlisting at 18 .Good they broke up when I was 13! Think I wud have ended up in army prison .
l

[Gibbous Moon]

The idea behind national service type conscription was to create a pool of citizens who could handle a gun and were used to taking orders so that in the event of a pan-European war the army could quickly expand. We don’t live in those kind of times anymore.

I’m more in favour of a national service Peace Corp – if you can’t prove you’re doing something useful and you want to live on social transfer income (eg my taxes), off you go and build paths in National Parks.

A few guys I know were from countries where national service was required. Ironically, one Greek and one Turkish Cypriot. Neither got much out of it and think the Greek guy may have been a strategic liability.

GM

[azraelle]

I was under the impression that military service was compulsory in Switzerland and Israel. Not exactly unworkable or cost-ineffective, and certainly not an abomination--just an irritant. Now to a power monger like Bush, or Hillary, or John McCain for that matter, compulsory service, along with pardons for 20 million illegal aliens to provide cannon fodder, there is just no telling where they would stop, or be stopped. Food for thought.

[GayandProud]

certainly not an abomination--just an irritant.

tell that to the Angolans forced into service through press ganging campaigns. Its easy to say its just an irritant if its not you that is being forced to do it.

[azraelle]

Compulsory military service was the rule, not the exception, in the USA until ~1975, commonly referred to as "the Draft", aka "Selective Service", and the law has never been rescinded, hence the current radio advertisements for all 18 year old males to register for selective service. It was the norm while I was in High School and beyond--the fact that my draft number the year I turned 18 was 312, and the draft satisfied its quota by the time they reached ~53 that year didn't prevent my best friend from serving in VietNam (his number was 37), nor did it sour me from later volunteering to serve 3 years in the Army after it became "all volunteer". If you are such a wimp that the mere thought of becoming a soldier causes you to figuratively pee your pants, then I feel sorry for you.

[GayandProud]

yeah whatever big man you seem quite grumpy
It seems we're getting our wires crossed here, I referred to Angola where even children are routinely press ganged into service and where detention and beatings are commonplace.

Somehow I dont think the US or Switzerland compares...but hey be my guest, lets hear how brave you are and how wimpy I am if it makes you feel better.

[Lena]

Theres also what amounts to a money draft here.

Since jobs are being exported and the Republicans have done all they can to get rid of loans and grants for little people to go to college many have to go in the service.

[The Colonel]

Compulsory military service was the rule, not the exception, in the USA until ~1975, commonly referred to as "the Draft", aka "Selective Service", and the law has never been rescinded, hence the current radio advertisements for all 18 year old males to register for selective service. It was the norm while I was in High School and beyond--the fact that my draft number the year I turned 18 was 312, and the draft satisfied its quota by the time they reached ~53 that year didn't prevent my best friend from serving in VietNam (his number was 37), nor did it sour me from later volunteering to serve 3 years in the Army after it became "all volunteer". If you are such a wimp that the mere thought of becoming a soldier causes you to figuratively pee your pants, then I feel sorry for you.

Some people are not up to being soldiers.

We all have natural abilities and talents - and they differ.

Young men, especially teens, should not have to become a soldier.

I've seen enough young men's lives wasted and what the F*** did much of it achieve? It will all happen again anyway.

If any of you seriously think that Iraq or Afghanistan (once they are "sorted") will really be sorted - you are deluded.

World War I was decribed as "the slaughter of a generation on an industrial scale." It's going to happen again unless you lot help to stop it.

[AussieAdam]

As someone who served in both the British and Australian army I am sure the Colonel would agree that when you are part of a section and in a combat situation you need to be 100% confident that the guys around you are with you and focussed.

I wouldnt want half my section to be made up of conscripts who have only a few weeks left to do or have hated every day of being in the forces and therefore have attitude and social issues. I want people with me who I can depend on.

As for Angola - The forces there are really just a collection of mercinary groups and guerillas anyway knitted together by a military structure that leads its forces by the use of fear.

[BeachBall]

I think that those who have never served, and think it to be a good thing, should read what AussieAdam and the Colonel have to say here, and have another good, long, hard think about it.

I have never served - but I have been part of a team (okay - so I coxed a racing VIII) and one thing I know about working as a team is that you must all pull together. And that means that you must all be equally committed.

In my team, if we had a member who wasn't committed, then we'd lose the race. Big deal. In a military team, if you have one member who isn't committed, it could get the whole team killed. It kinda makes a difference.