The De-Valuing of women by women.

[Drinker]

Correct me if I'm wrong Drinker, but I don't think you care if we dress modestly or not.

However, add rape to the equation, and you DO care.

Am I right?

If I had no daughters... I probably would not.
But I am not a hypocrite on this subject and know what men think.
So does Elliot when he mentions "men weigh the consequences"!
He just has not the balls to go against the position of a few women of status here!

[Drinker]

Let's do the math the smart boy was not man enough to do....

Ok, smart boy....
Do the math

Rapes each day in the USA = 1871
4.4% of 1871 = 82


then I can say
82 = the number of women Elliot could care less about!

right. and now let's talk about the other 1789 that you've painstakingly ignored. good job on that.

YOU are the one that said that number cannot be helped.
So now i am the bad guy for agreeing with you on that point?

[Drinker]

82 = the number of women Elliot could care less about!

right.

Broken out the cigars yet?

[elliott20]

Let's do the math the smart boy was not man enough to do....

Ok, smart boy....
Do the math

Rapes each day in the USA = 1871
4.4% of 1871 = 82


then I can say
82 = the number of women Elliot could care less about!

right. and now let's talk about the other 1789 that you've painstakingly ignored. good job on that.

YOU are the one that said that number cannot be helped.
So now i am the bad guy for agreeing with you on that point?

you can't help the men's intent. But you can do things that can lessen the chance of it. Of course, most rape are committed by men the women knows and trusts. So in a way you're right, there is only so much you can do.

to be honest, I wasn't really all that serious about this entire thread since I kind of figured what you would have said already. Yeah, even the whole "I don't care about women" bit.

But at least you answered Blonde's question with a straight answer. That's a start for you.

[Blond Adult Girl]

If I had no daughters... I probably would not.
But I am not a hypocrite on this subject and know what men think.

So you don't let your daughters show alot of flesh?

[elliott20]

funny thing was, if he had initially just said, "because he thinks it's immodest and he doesn't like that", I actually wouldn't have questioned it at all. Personal values, are, after all, personal.

[Blond Adult Girl]

funny thing was, if he had initially just said, "because he thinks it's immodest and he doesn't like that", I actually wouldn't have questioned it at all. Personal values, are, after all, personal.

I for one don't know what you guys are arguing about. It seems like your just trying to burn eachother more than anything else.

I like both of you, but can you guys just settle down a bit?

-Elliot, drinker is not trying to justify rape. I don't know where you got that idea, but from reading his posts, I don't think he's trying to justify rape in any way, shape, or form.

-Drinker, if you believe that we women are in the wrong to dress "immodestly," thats fine, but you can't really connect it to rape. You yourself said that only 4.4% of all rape involves the women being provacative (or something to that extent). But what about the other 96.5%? Power or sexual lust, the bottom line is that immodesty and rape have no correlation 96.5% of the time. You can be against immodest dressing, but you can't connext it to rape.

[elliott20]

funny thing was, if he had initially just said, "because he thinks it's immodest and he doesn't like that", I actually wouldn't have questioned it at all. Personal values, are, after all, personal.

I for one don't know what you guys are arguing about. It seems like your just trying to burn eachother more than anything else.

I like both of you, but can you guys just settle down a bit?

-Elliot, drinker is not trying to justify rape. I don't know where you got that idea, but from reading his posts, I don't think he's trying to justify rape in any way, shape, or form.

-Drinker, if you believe that we women are in the wrong to dress "immodestly," thats fine, but you can't really connect it to rape. You yourself said that only 4.4% of all rape involves the women being provacative (or something to that extent). But what about the other 96.5%? Power or sexual lust, the bottom line is that immodesty and rape have no correlation 96.5% of the time. You can be against immodest dressing, but you can't connext it to rape.

eh, I just decided to have some fun with drinker/kalel/casey/steve. I normally would try to take this kind of topics a bit more seriously and try to actually make something a bit more interesting out of this but quite frankly, his attitude towards me makes it pretty predictable and boring.

he's probably going to write another post further trying to disparage my manhood or something before he goes on and on about "castrated liberal agendas" or some such. And then he'll tell you how you can save those 4.4% by covering up.

If I was serious about this entire thing, I would have pointed out that 4.4% of the women raped were recorded to having some kind of provocative behavior in some fashoin, but this does not automatically establish correlation or even causality. (This is a statistical concept a lot of people have problems with) And thus, while 4.4% were recorded to having shown this kind of behavior, the study is incapable of creating causality.

He, of course, would probably say something like, "use your common sense, men see, men want, men rape" logic, failng to acknowledge that most men in our society REVILE rape because of social conditioning in addition to the legal reprecussions. (he will no doubt quote this paragraph, highligh the last part of the sentence, and say how I'm somehow defying the nature of man, ignoring that it is precisely that quality what makes us different from animals.)

And in the end, we'll just end up going round and round in circles and nothing really gets discussed. On the other hand, he will have developed the expectation that I have to actually engage him seriously and respectfully, even though he's incapable of doing either of those things himself.

so yeah, it's kind of just another day at FF for me, really.

[Blond Adult Girl]

so yeah, it's kind of just another day at FF for me, really.

[Drinker]

Let's do the math the smart boy was not man enough to do....

Ok, smart boy....
Do the math

Rapes each day in the USA = 1871
4.4% of 1871 = 82


then I can say
82 = the number of women Elliot could care less about!

right. and now let's talk about the other 1789 that you've painstakingly ignored. good job on that.

YOU are the one that said that number cannot be helped.
So now i am the bad guy for agreeing with you on that point?

you can't help the men's intent. But you can do things that can lessen the chance of it. Of course, most rape are committed by men the women knows and trusts. So in a way you're right, there is only so much you can do.

to be honest, I wasn't really all that serious about this entire thread since I kind of figured what you would have said already. Yeah, even the whole "I don't care about women" bit.

But at least you answered Blonde's question with a straight answer. That's a start for you.

Your alliances and frindships are well known.
Your intent is quit clear.
Muddy the waters and ignore the 82 women a day in favor of what.. not more than a dozen here?

[Drinker]

funny thing was, if he had initially just said, "because he thinks it's immodest and he doesn't like that", I actually wouldn't have questioned it at all. Personal values, are, after all, personal.

I for one don't know what you guys are arguing about. It seems like your just trying to burn eachother more than anything else.

I like both of you, but can you guys just settle down a bit?

-Elliot, drinker is not trying to justify rape. I don't know where you got that idea, but from reading his posts, I don't think he's trying to justify rape in any way, shape, or form.
Elliot is trying to protect the "honor" of a few women here that I suspect were raped.
And I can understand them not wanting to see politically incorrect statements that fly in the face of what a rape counselor told them in order for them to move on.
But that does nothing for the 82 women a day here in the US.
Does it?

-Drinker, if you believe that we women are in the wrong to dress "immodestly," thats fine,
Everything has it's proper place.


but you can't really connect it to rape. You yourself said that only 4.4% of all rape involves the women being provacative (or something to that extent).
Elliot actually provided that percentage.
Thank you Elliot.

But what about the other 96.5%? Power or sexual lust, the bottom line is that immodesty and rape have no correlation 96.5% of the time. You can be against immodest dressing, but you can't connext it to rape.

82 a day.
Do you realise that's nearly two women a day in almost every state?
Almost THREE THOUSAND WOMEN A YEAR in the USA alone!
Do we just write those women off because 96% of all other rapes were power based and unnavoidable?


To read Elliots post you get the idea he would say yes. They are of no consequence.

Do you feel the same way BAG?

[Blond Adult Girl]

Do you realise that's nearly two women a day in almost every state?
Almost THREE THOUSAND WOMEN A YEAR in the USA alone!
Do we just write those women off because 96% of all other rapes were power based and unnavoidable?


To read Elliots post you get the idea he would say yes. They are of no consequence.

Do you feel the same way BAG?

I say that we should be much more worried about the 96.6%. As for the 4.4%, even then, you have to consider factors like the guy getting drunk, the women being in the wrong place at the wrong time, etc. I just don't think you can pinpoint it to immodest dressing.

BTW, what IS it that the "rape counselors" say to rape victims?

[noodles]

Im actually slightly gutted that im saying this but i really do hope that next time you are wearing your shorts and t-shirt on a sunny day drinker, that some bloke slightly larger and stonger than you drags you into an alleyway and rapes you. I hope that your ordeal lasts some time and that you suffer violent assault with it (maybe a black eye) and verbal abuse throughout your attack. I dont feel that with a personality as warped as yours you'll ever really understand what you're actually saying until you've been there.

After your attack please feel free to try and come back here to continue your ridiculous, pointless and degrading rantings.

[trickie]

where's the de-valuing?....less than 10 yrs ago in brooklyn or the bronx at hunter's point, you'd buy a bj right in the street for $5, now they won't give you cone for less than $20....looks like some of the same bitches too...that's inflation, not de-valuing...

[elliott20]

see? I called it. I told you he would ignore the whole bit about data not being able to establish cause but rather just correlation.

If I had told them that 95% of women who were raped had hair, he probably would suggest all women shave their heads.