Why Does America Back Israel

[tamachant]

Just for Interrest, Why does America back Israel so strongly, even in times when they do wrong ? I honestly am not so familiar with all this. I only know that American Poloticians are strongly backed financially by the Jewish Community, but does this have anything to do with Israel ?

[myron myron]

If you are "not so familiar with this," then how do you know that America "back Israel so strongly, even in times when they do wrong"?

Do you have in mind any specific "times when they do wrong"?

(btw, I do agree with your main point.)

[tamachant]

Because Ive seen on our News how America Backs Israel, I think it was some time ago when they first started fighting with the Palestinien, generally people felt it was wrong, But America did not seem to think so. My knowlege is limited on this as in SA we only get some of the news. I was just wondering why they would support Israel say over Palastinians ?

[ILWL]

I have thought about this and think a key factor in US considerations is that Israel is a nuclear capable power. Perhaps centuries of oppression has taken it's toll on the psyche of the Israeli nation - meaning that as far as they are concerned it may make any full scale war an epic fight to the death.

I would venture two distant perspectives on Isreal using historical parallels:

1) Look at George Keenan's analysis of the Post War threat from the Soviet Union - the part which I see convergence is how Isreali expansion is fuelled by it's insecurity - which of course makes the problem worse.

2) The Palestinian Authority solution could possibly be seen as some what akin to South Africa's Homelands policy during the 1970s (I think), that being sold as a seperate entity when in fact it doesn't quite constitute an independent nation!

[myron myron]

I partly accept the reasons publicly stated, i.e., that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East, etc., but there is no question that American Jews have political influence far beyond their numbers owing to their control of the media and their financial power.

Jews control Los Angeles/Hollywood and thus can dictate film and television content. Recall how Marlon Brando was blackballed in Hollywood for merely pointing out what no one can deny, that Hollywood is controlled by Jews. Recall the outcry in Hollywood against Mel Gibson for his film about Jesus Christ that Jews decided portrayed them in an unflattering light -- the film would never have been seen in theaters had Gibson not been in financial position to finance the distribution himself.

Jews control New York City, the financial, print media, advertising and cultural capital of America. The New York Times, the so-called "newspaper of record," is owned by the Jewish Sulzberger family. The most successful investment bank on Wall Street is Goldman Sachs -- the Treasury Secretary under Bill Clinton and the present Treasury Secretary both came from Goldman Sachs. The most profitable law firm in New York City by a large margin (albeit not the biggest firm in size) is Wachtel, Lipton, Rosen & Katz -- Bill Clinton's White House counsel, Bernard Nussbaum, was and again is a partner at the Wachtel firm.

The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), the largest (though not the only) pro-Israel special interest lobbying group in Washington, D.C., exerts considerable influence on American foreign policy concerning Israel regardless whether Republicans or Democrats are in control of the White House and Congress. AIPAC steers political contributions by American Jews to candidates for local and national public office who support Israel and steers contributions to opponents of candidates who are not sufficently supportive of Israel. Two former AIPAC employees were recently indicted for espionage in the “AIPAC Scandal,” in which information regarding United States policy towards Iran was passed to Israel through AIPAC. Lawrence Franklin, a former Defense Department employee, has pleaded guilty to several espionage-related charges and was sentenced in January 2006 to nearly thirteen years in prison.

That said, Jews can never completely control America because they comprise less than 5% of the population. Outside of New York, Los Angeles and a couple of other large American cities, Jews are not particularly popular with Americans -- especially in the American heartland between the coasts and in the South. This is why American Jews as a group are intolerant of free speech.

The Anti-Defamation League (ADL), a Jewish organization with an annual budget of over $40 million, has a stated aim "to stop, by appeals to reason and conscience and, if necessary, by appeals to law, the defamation of the Jewish people." In practice, the ADL seeks to destroy the reputation of anyone who publicly utters, writes, or makes a film about, anything critical of Jews. In his decision granting judgment in favor of a married couple against the ADL for falsely portraying them as anti-Semites, U.S. District Judge Edward Nottingham wrote:

"it is not unreasonable to infer that public charges of anti-Semitism leveled by the ADL will be taken seriously and assumed by many to be true without question. In that respect, the ADL is in a unique position of being able to cause substantial harm to individuals when it lends its backing to allegations of anti-Semitism."

As a group, Jews are hostile to Christianity -- in a nation where more than 80% of the population identify themselves as Christian. The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) -- not officially a Jewish organization but historically and presently headed, funded and staffed primarily by Jews -- has filed and continues to file hundreds of lawsuits against public schools and local governments challenging any practice that in any way permits positive expressions of Christianity. At the same time, the ACLU defends as freedom of speech public blasphemies against Christianity, such as a publicly-funded art exhibit that included "Piss Christ," so-called art consisting of a crucifix immersed in a glass jar filled with the "artist's" urine. And Hollywood produces an endless stream of movies and TV shows that belittle Christians and denigrate Jesus Christ.

The majority of Americans would not necessarily favor Jews and Israel but for the Arabs in particular and Muslims in general, who have been their own worst enemies vis-a-vis American public opinion. The price of Muslim terrorist successes against American targets abroad and especially 9/11 has been alienation of American public opinion against Arabs and Muslims for at least a generation.

Before 9/11, the majority of Americans were increasingly losing patience with the U.S. government’s unwavering support for Israel and increasingly favoring a more even-handed U.S. policy in the Middle East. The 9/11 attacks by themselves cemented American public opinion against Arabs and Muslims and ingrained in the American psyche the image of fanatical savages bent on murdering Americans.

In sum, I believe America’s unwavering support for Israel is owing to a combination of the merits of the situation, Jewish political influence disproportionate to the American Jewish population, and Arab/Muslim terrorism against Americans which reflects utter ineptitude of Arabs/Muslims in the battle for the hearts and minds of the American people.

[Lena]

I agree with myron myron .Don't know if most jews hate other people though , ofcourse some will have too since in every group I have seen there are some who hate all outsiders.

For some israel is a sacred obsession that comes before everything and they spend all kinds of money and are politically organized to get the governement and taxpayers to always go along with israel .My own feeling is that if there all that entranced by israel they should leave and go there...........

We're aways told how holy israel is and how israel is always right to the point that it's sickening .......... America should look out for itself and not be israel's cash cow and bodyguard ..............

[myron myron]

When I say "as a group, Jews are hostile to Christianity," I'm not saying Jewish-American individuals hate Christians and I'm not saying Jewish-American groups hate Christians.

What I am saying is that lawsuits by Jewish groups and the ACLU (not officially a Jewish group but historically and presently headed, funded and staffed primarily by Jews) are the main reason we no longer see public Christmas trees and Nativity scenes at Christmas time across America and why people in offices have to say "Happy Holidays" to each other when they really mean "Merry Christmas." These same groups are also the main reason we do see public Chanukah menorahs instead of public Christmas trees. I consider such hypocrisy "hostile to Christianity."

What I am saying is that the ACLU fought in court and ultimately prevailed in defending as "freedom of speech" such publicly-funded blasphemies against Christianity as the Brooklyn Art Museum exhibit a few years ago which featured Andres Serrano's Piss Christ, so-called art consisting of a crucifix immersed in a glass jar filled with the "artist's" urine, and Chris Ofili's Holy Virgin Mary, a "painting" of a black Virgin Mary covered in dried elephant S***. Christian groups did not argue in court that the exhibition should be censored, but only that it should not be publicly-funded, i.e., they should not be forced to pay with their tax dollars to denigrate their own religion. The Christian groups lost in court, and the exhibit was held. Yet the same ACLU and Jewish groups later sued in court to censor an art exhibit that included Nazi uniforms on the ground that it was offensive to Jews, "freedom of speech" be damned. I consider such hypocrisy "hostile to Christianity."

American Jewish groups bite the hand that feeds them. Were it not for the United States, a country where more than 80% of the population identify themselves as Christian, Israel would be sunk. One would think there would be a modicum of gratitude by American Jews toward Christians rather than the hostility (not hatred) I describe above. Nothing doing.

If Arabs/Muslims were savvy in public relations -- hell, if they refrained from terrorism against America, for starters -- American foreign policy would not be so unwaveringly pro-Israel. American public opinion ultimately determines American foreign policy. American public opinion was not instinctively pro-Israel before 9/11.

[MM6]

I agree with your first post, some excellent points raised myron. I dont condone one iota the way in which the palestinian people are treated, and arguably that subject is more ripe for debate but this thread is about the USA backing of Israel. To wit : Israel might be seen to be is fighting a double war: against Palestinians on one side with the PR campaign in the U.S. to garner continued support via the US media being the other side. Your point about muslims is interesting. "The price of Muslim terrorist successes against American targets abroad and especially 9/11 has been alienation of American public opinion....and Arab/Muslim terrorism against Americans which reflects utter ineptitude of Arabs/Muslims in the battle for the hearts and minds of the American people." Each group has its own larger agenda and it is pertinent that the 9/11 bombers were radicalised extremists and didnt have anything in mind except creating a huge atrocity which would gain them maximum global publicity. As well as hitting America where it hurts and creating a climate of fear. Formulating how they could garner support from America and leave Israel out in the cold was arguably the last thing on their minds, if it entered their minds at all. But it has certainly turned the American psyche away from the inequality and plainly biased reporting of the Israeli/Palestine conflict and firmly onto the extremist Islamist threat.
However your last sentence there, while I agree, I would add that this: Since WW2 and the Holocaust accompanied by the influx of Jewish intellectuals into the US fleeing the Nazis, [this could be said inter alia to have had a huge effect on american culture through jewish penetration of the media] there has been a sensitivity towards Jewish people that was perhaps not there before.

[Lena]

It gets very touchy here since to many people criticism of Israel seems to be anti-jewish and you don't want to be a bigot . I guess a good example of political correctnness ?

Also Israel's supporters always seem to try to say that whenever there is criticism of Israel it's really because the person is a racist .It's there trump card .

I know more then a few jewish people who think israel should make peace with the Palestinians . Think it wud be best for all if America looked out for itself and did some arm-twisting to get Israel to the peace table .

[tamachant]

Also Israel's supporters always seem to try to say that whenever there is criticism of Israel it's really because the person is a racist .It's there trump card .
.

Thats kinda weird cause the other day my bf said well you can see that that person is Jewish and I asked him how and he explained and I asked him well are they from Israel and he said no they are South African and then I asked him how a religios group could look the same if they are not from the same country but just share a religion...... Im just saying this cause Ive never really know racisism in regard to religion, here there is only colour racism and he said that when in Israel he could not tell the difference between the Isralites and Palestians. What religion are Palestines ? Muslim ?

[Lena]

There moslems which is almost a dirty word in America now .

Really tragic the way we fall all over israel and how people are scared to even ask why for fear of being called a bigot .

The israel lobbby which is very powerful was big force for the war with iraq and is now pushing for a war with Iran .Nasty and treasonous ..............

[Noliving]

I would love to see evidence lena about them being the big force for war with iraq and now pushing for war with iran. I have yet to see them lobby for war against iran. In fact lena if you look at bush's current objectives right now when it comes to iran you will see he is trying to force a domestic revolution by using the economy. If you look at what brought down the USSR you will see that bush is actually trying too use those ideas to have it work in iran.

I would say that the primary reason why america backs them so strongly is that America has been so desperate to have a democracy in the region that it will back it no matter what just as long as it has a democratic government. That way it will always have some type of influence control in the region. I would also say that israeli lobby groups also have a big hand to play to in our foreign policy regarding the mid east peace agreement.

I don't like israel because some of their policies are just rediculous while at the same time they have purposely attacked our naval warships and have tried to blow up the american embassy in egypt and make it look like it was arabs that did it too try and prevent our government from forming "positive government relations" with the egyptian government.

This I thought was intersting "Why there is no palestine"

1. Because Israelis can't decide what they want.

Polls have shown that a clear majority of Israelis wants to see an end to the occupation. But history - and the craters of Katyushas and Qassams - indicate that a clear majority of Israelis, and an absolute majority of their leaders, are unwilling to take the potentially catastrophic risks of ending the occupation unilaterally.

Moreover, suspicious of the Palestinians' ultimate intentions and fearful of the social consequences of expelling West Bank settlers, the public shows little inclination to seek a diplomatic solution.

We no longer want to pay the price of occupation, but we have become convinced that the price of ending it is far higher.

2. Because Palestinians cannot decide what they want.

For decades, the Palestinians had no need to decide what they wanted. Israel shunned their representatives, dismissed their aspirations, settled their lands, and imprisoned and otherwise hunted down their leaders.

The occupation was more than simply the address for all complaints, the explanation for all disappointments, the diagnosis for all pain. It was also the excuse for indefinitely delaying debate over the character of a future independent Palestine.

Ironically, the hope of statehood was kept alive through the very darkest periods of occupation. More recently, however, as Gaza drowns in civil war and blood feud, Palestinians have begun to wonder if they will ever have a state at all.

To be able to move toward statehood, Palestinians must decide how they themselves stand on the bedrock issues of the conflict. Fundamentally, they must decide if they wish to make a final peace with Israel, or press for a Palestine to supplant it.

3. Because neither side is willing to abide by peace agreements.

Each side has banks of researchers assembling evidence that the other side consistently violates the explicit terms of signed peace accords. The evidence, on both sides, is conclusive.

4. Because we are, all of us, better at vengeance than we are at forgiveness.

For both sides, it is the first rule of politics: Peace is politically dangerous, if not lethal. War, or at least talk of war, is the safer default setting.

This is similar to, but not the same as:

5. Because we love our extremists too much.

Both sides have a profound sentimental attachment to the militants, extremists and hardliners in their midst. We see them as the keepers of the pure flame, the ideologically untarnished, remnants of a more straightforward era. We also suffer from them, as the minority whose actions intentionally thwart the possibility of peace for the majority.

On the Palestinian side they may be gunmen or suicide bombers or their dispatchers; on our own, hilltop youth or those suffering from Temple Mount delusions.

We tolerate them, we subsidize them, we admire them, we arm them, we forgive them their trespasses, we allow them to live outside our own laws - and, in return, they ruin our lives.

6. Because the policies of both sides play directly into the hands of extremists on the other.

Hamas is Hamas because of Israel. And no group in the Holy Land has done more to bolster the Israeli far right than Hamas.

7. Because the Muslim world wants its Palestinians to suffer.

The Muslim world grants the Palestinians fortunes in lip service, and little else of value. The Palestinians are much more valuable to them as valiant, pathetic symbols of victimhood. The Palestinians are to the Muslim world as the wretched refugees of Gaza once were to the Palestinian leadership. Their image can act as lightning rods for unrest, turning domestic political discord into anger against Israel.

8. Because the West now sees them as terrorists.

All terrorism, like all news, is local. The moment Muslim terrorists strike a Western city, the Twin Towers, the Underground, the Madrid depot, Palestinian resistance turns overnight to terrorism, in the local journalistic vernacular. Thanks largely to Al-Qaida, the West has changed its definition of Palestinian resistance, from defense of the innocent to targeting of the innocent.

9. Because Arafat lied to them.

While Yasser Arafat was signing agreements with Israel, he was letting his people know in hints and winks and exhortations that they would in the end have everything they wanted. Refugees would return to their homes in Israel proper. Jerusalem's Old City would return to Muslim sovereignty. The armed struggle would tip the balance.

There is also the lie inherent in the rule of corruption which Arafat fostered, sapping critical resources, undermining public confidence and crippling efforts at responsive governance.

10. Because they cannot stop themselves.

There is no one to put an end to civil war. There is no spiritual authority, there is no governmental authority, there is no military authority.

11. Because some of the best people in Palestine are leaving.

And because some of the people who cannot leave are unable to think about anything else.

12. Because each side takes it for granted that its side is clearly, morally, objectively in the right, and that the other side is nothing but wrong.

A fool's paradise turns out to be better than no paradise at all.

13. And because the Holy Land is the world capital of wishful thinking.

Deep down, both sides secretly believe that they will get what they wanted all along, whether it's Greater Israel or Greater Palestine, complete sovereignty over Jerusalem or the right of return.

After a century of struggle, the Palestinians deserve better. The Palestinians deserve a nation. But after a century of struggle, they now face their worst test since 1948.

Their ship of state needs a painful refitting, and a radical and perhaps terrifying change of course. As a people, the Palestinians are now facing their matriculation. If they can address their long list of problems head on, they can return to the path of independence. But skip the problems, or get them wrong, and Palestinian nationhood may be just one more dream dying in the dust in Gaza.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/870577.html

[Lena]

Just heard this morning how both peace loving israel and the USA have soldiers inside Iran working with minority groups to rebel against the governemnt . Shouldn't surprise anyone .

Also heard some jonathan pollard who works for the israel lobby with do a real hard sell predicting that iran will take over iraq if we leave and will then try taking over all of Saudi Arabia with the oil ..................

After listening to that traitor ( who you know was never in any war himself ) you got the idea we have to attack iran tomorrow at the latest ...............

[Noliving]

the word is affairs, not afairs and it is also incomphrensible not imcomprehensable.

[Lena]

It's good to be interested in things but no one knows anything and sure not from reading just a few things and getting ahead of themself thinking there they are THE voice..................