|
|
| Author |
Message |
frosty
FemaleFirst Senior Member (500+ Posts)
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 587
Location: Scotland
|
 Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 11:16 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| ILWL wrote: |
| bellydanca wrote: |
| Scott L. Martinez wrote: |
| Gladys wrote: |
| I wonder why they stay here if they don't want to integrate? |
They like living of us! |
Muslim does not mean 'foreigner' or 'immigrant on support'. There are plenty of British tax paying Muslims. Come to think of it, Muslims have to give 2.5% of their wealth to charity once a year, on top off the 40% odd tax on income. |
Do you know what - I have actually got to the point where I am fed up of having this conversation.
Please forgive my rather patronising tone - but perhaps the case is that people should either think of the meaning of words like integrate and not pay too much heed to notions of foreigner and Brit. The reason is your government doesn't - the business world doesn't either - in fact I personally doubt whether they really give a S*** about those notions because what it boils down to whether you are British or not (Through an accident of birth) is whether you are useful in political terms or financial terms.
You see I cannot get the idea out of my head (And perhaps it's just the world driving me slowly insane) that there are people who are living the life of Reilly getting rich off our efforts - laughing their heads off at the confidence trick they have pulled on all of us - conning us into thinking that the foreigners are to blame for this condition!
One of the greatest cons pulled was to get us all worried about a handful of assylum seekers / Illegal immigrants - when they are encouraging far more significant numbers to come over on a legal basis to work fully aware of the economic reality that our wages will (In real terms) contract! |
Not quite sure of your point there but I will agree that the focus on a pretty tiny quantity of illegal immigrants is a bogus diversion to appease certain reactionary groups. Society loves it's bogeymen.
This topic is not about illegal or legal immigration, however, it is about social and cultural division. Reeling back round to immigration is an equally bogus diversion. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ILWL
FemaleFirst Guru
Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 3181
Location: (Grassy) Knowle
|
| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 1:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| frosty wrote: |
| ILWL wrote: |
| bellydanca wrote: |
| Scott L. Martinez wrote: |
| Gladys wrote: |
| I wonder why they stay here if they don't want to integrate? |
They like living of us! |
Muslim does not mean 'foreigner' or 'immigrant on support'. There are plenty of British tax paying Muslims. Come to think of it, Muslims have to give 2.5% of their wealth to charity once a year, on top off the 40% odd tax on income. |
Do you know what - I have actually got to the point where I am fed up of having this conversation.
Please forgive my rather patronising tone - but perhaps the case is that people should either think of the meaning of words like integrate and not pay too much heed to notions of foreigner and Brit. The reason is your government doesn't - the business world doesn't either - in fact I personally doubt whether they really give a S*** about those notions because what it boils down to whether you are British or not (Through an accident of birth) is whether you are useful in political terms or financial terms.
You see I cannot get the idea out of my head (And perhaps it's just the world driving me slowly insane) that there are people who are living the life of Reilly getting rich off our efforts - laughing their heads off at the confidence trick they have pulled on all of us - conning us into thinking that the foreigners are to blame for this condition!
One of the greatest cons pulled was to get us all worried about a handful of assylum seekers / Illegal immigrants - when they are encouraging far more significant numbers to come over on a legal basis to work fully aware of the economic reality that our wages will (In real terms) contract! |
Not quite sure of your point there but I will agree that the focus on a pretty tiny quantity of illegal immigrants is a bogus diversion to appease certain reactionary groups. Society loves it's bogeymen.
This topic is not about illegal or legal immigration, however, it is about social and cultural division. Reeling back round to immigration is an equally bogus diversion. |
My point Frosty is that the use of classification in this kind of wide ranging condition - allows for the exercise of DoubleThink and for the population (All groups) to apply double standards.
Personally I think that the problem is based around social division - which is widening almost as we speak. The cultural aspect is the distraction used by people in power who are adept at divide and ruling - let's feed then this bullshit about British values and History (Even though they have little or no knowledge of this - aside what they have been taught) - lets get them wound up over those Muslims who believe that gods will is profoundly manifested by applying the convenience and expediency neccesary at 600AD - deep down the establishment ought to love these people whose blind obedience leads them to serve their leaders wishes without demure!
We shall carry on the process which has worked over hundreds of years - bring them over with promises of tolerance, work and possibly (If they work hard enough) a fortune. When they find out that all they really get is the work and that the streets are paved not with gold but wasted labour - they get upset - but it is alright there is always the next batch - cancel that last lot and dismiss them as terrorists. Get those living in plush suburbs and out in the country to say that this is about the preservation of culture or all about multi-culturalism - What BRAND of Brotherhood do you subscribe to - of man or of the nation? In asking that question the choice is merely whether to live with ignorance or bliss - herein lies the new religon - to bind people and to blind them to that unholy truth that money is what makes the world remain as it should! Mankind in a state of servitude! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
the300xxx
FemaleFirst Newbie (20+ posts)
Joined: 26 May 2007
Posts: 22
|
| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 8:52 am Post subject: go |
|
|
We are a christian country-and im not religious. We have these values, freedom of speech, rights for women-sometimes not a good thing etc etc
If they dont like them leave. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SM
FemaleFirst Senior Member (500+ Posts)
Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 915
Location: London
|
| Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: go |
|
|
| the300xxx wrote: |
We are a christian country-and im not religious. We have these values, freedom of speech, rights for women-sometimes not a good thing etc etc
If they dont like them leave. |
HAHA!!! Yes, just leave - and go where??? Seeing as these people who you you are treating like dogs are actually British Muslims.
Why do you think people like this hate the white British? We force them to live in areas together because we don't let them fit in, and then chastise them because they don't fit in...
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
usman330
Hello. I am New! Talk to Me
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 2
|
| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 10:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I wonder why asian british muslims don't fit in?
Maybe because they have experienced racism, odd looks and comments from middle aged white british people all their lives ...
To be honest, the white british just give off negative vibes to the asian brits, I have experienced it. For example, at university when working with a group of white brits, you just seem to be ignored and 'there' because you have to be. Your ideas are not listened to, your not trusted, as if your some kind of theif or criminal. And these people don't have a clue who or what i have dont in my life, far greater than them.
To be honest british asians are generally treated in a certain manner by a high percentage of uk white people. It is clear why british asians work for themselves and run their own businesses, and then what happens when they make a few bob and buy a nice car, the chav types start to point the finger ... ohhh benefits, ohhh 20 to a 2 bed terrace these asians .... blah blah blah. If somebody doesent like where they live then deal with it in a constructive way, change your way, or move out of the country yourself. No one owns countries, I was born here so have an equal right to live here just like you sonny jim  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SM
FemaleFirst Senior Member (500+ Posts)
Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 915
Location: London
|
| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
+1 
That is it in a nutshell. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
noodles
FemaleFirst Grand Master (1000+ Posts)
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1901
|
| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 8:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| totally agree. However it might be an idea to quit the chav comments? Isn't lumping people together, stereotyping and discriminating what started all this S*** in the first place (and im talking many moons ago)? In my experience (of observation and listening, not direct racial discrimination) ignorance comes from every walk of life. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ILWL
FemaleFirst Guru
Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 3181
Location: (Grassy) Knowle
|
| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 10:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| noodles wrote: |
| totally agree. However it might be an idea to quit the chav comments? Isn't lumping people together, stereotyping and discriminating what started all this S*** in the first place (and im talking many moons ago)? In my experience (of observation and listening, not direct racial discrimination) ignorance comes from every walk of life. |
That is why I like you Noodles! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SM
FemaleFirst Senior Member (500+ Posts)
Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 915
Location: London
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| noodles wrote: |
| totally agree. However it might be an idea to quit the chav comments? Isn't lumping people together, stereotyping and discriminating what started all this S*** in the first place (and im talking many moons ago)? In my experience (of observation and listening, not direct racial discrimination) ignorance comes from every walk of life. |
Well you cannot really say that noodles, because the Chav thing is a lifestyle choice. If people choose to live like this then I cannot see why it would be an issue to call them it. Just like a group of bikers or a group of surf dudes. They actually want to live under that label and seek some sort of association and acceptance by being part of the group that they feel that they belong to. However, the latter part of your post is spot on. To be ignorant (racist or lifestylist) towards other people means you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
noodles
FemaleFirst Grand Master (1000+ Posts)
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1901
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| SM wrote: |
| noodles wrote: |
| totally agree. However it might be an idea to quit the chav comments? Isn't lumping people together, stereotyping and discriminating what started all this S*** in the first place (and im talking many moons ago)? In my experience (of observation and listening, not direct racial discrimination) ignorance comes from every walk of life. |
Well you cannot really say that noodles, because the Chav thing is a lifestyle choice. If people choose to live like this then I cannot see why it would be an issue to call them it. Just like a group of bikers or a group of surf dudes. They actually want to live under that label and seek some sort of association and acceptance by being part of the group that they feel that they belong to. However, the latter part of your post is spot on. To be ignorant (racist or lifestylist) towards other people means you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. |
I understand what you're saying but the word 'chav' comes from outside the 'so-called' chav world. Its like calling people 'gippos' - which is also an offensive term. Paki's is an offensive term and so is queer when used in a derrogory way. What consititues a chav anyway? What label are they living under? The actual dictionary definition is 'young working calss person who wears sports gear' (or something close to that) and Imo, at most, it actually seems to be used as a derrogotory term to put people down. (as has been displayed here)
Take gay people for example - the only thing they have in common is that they are attracted to the same sex. Iv never met 2 the same. We all have our own thought patterns and views. To say all gay people are anything but this is misinterpretation and misinformation. And i think that defending people in one respect, challenging ignorance and wanting people to listen to the fact that immigrants/muslims/whoever are not all................, and deserve as much empathy and respect as the next person, actually becomes a nul and void argument when in the next breath that person does exactly the same to another perceived group of people - in this case 'chavs'.
Last edited by noodles on Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:50 am; edited 5 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
noodles
FemaleFirst Grand Master (1000+ Posts)
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1901
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ji |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
noodles
FemaleFirst Grand Master (1000+ Posts)
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1901
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ll - sorry i keep adding posts and not meaning to - doh. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SM
FemaleFirst Senior Member (500+ Posts)
Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 915
Location: London
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| noodles wrote: |
| I understand what you're saying but the word 'chav' comes from outside the 'so-called' chav world. Its like calling people 'gippos' - which is also an offensive term. |
Well not really. Chavs call well to do people 'snobs' or whatever. Like I say, it's a lifestyle choice. People decide to live as they do and wear the colours on their sleeve. In terms of race, there is no choice about it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
noodles
FemaleFirst Grand Master (1000+ Posts)
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1901
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| OK - so whats a chav? What it is that these people chose? Why are they sopken of in such a derrogory manner? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
noodles
FemaleFirst Grand Master (1000+ Posts)
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1901
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| noodles wrote: |
| OK - so whats a chav? What it is that these people chose? Why are they spoken of in such a derrogory manner? |
And isnt lifestyle something that one learns and becomes oneself (in most cases)? So just to play devils advocate - a chav child - just like a travellers child or a middle class child or a muslim child has been brought up in a certain environment and taught certain values - wheres the difference? Why is one a choice and the other not? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Site Map
FAQ
Usergroups
Search
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Register
My Profile Space
